West Virginia’s WaterKeeper: Angie Rosser

Kate Tucker: I'm Kate Tucker, and this is Hope Is My Middle Name, a podcast from Consensus Digital Media. Today, I am thrilled to share a transformative conversation with Angie Rosser, executive Director of West Virginia Rivers Coalition, and get a load of this, she is also the West Virginia Headwaters Waterkeeper. Now, I've always had a special connection with West Virginia, so when I found out they had an official waterkeeper, I had to meet her.

True to her title, Angie is a passionate advocate for both the wild places and the wonderful people of Appalachia, especially when it comes to connecting the dots between healthy water and healthy communities.

It's no secret that West Virginia has had a hard run of it. Both the people and the environment have borne the cost of national and global demands on their many rich resources.

And it can be easy to feel overwhelmed by the range of social and economic and environmental issues that West Virginians face. But as you'll hear from Angie, simply by talking, and even more importantly, by listening, she and her team are slowly helping make possible a day when the rivers and water from the tap run clean for everyone.

Kate Tucker: Hello, Angie. It's so good to get to talk with you.

Angie Rosser: Oh, Kate, I've been looking forward to this conversation. 

Kate Tucker: How's your morning going? 

Angie Rosser: It's a beautiful fall morning here in West Virginia. We’re starting to see some colors pop, so, that magical time. 

Kate Tucker: Yes, it is magical. Whereabouts are you? 

Angie Rosser: So I know you're somewhat familiar with our state.

I'm right in the middle. I'm north of Charleston, about 45 minutes on the Elk River. So Clay County is the county I live in. It's pretty rural. 

Kate Tucker: So my grandfather is from Nebo. 

Angie Rosser: Okay. Yeah. 

Kate Tucker: Which is a tiny little place in Clay County that's like just next over from Nicholas County. 

Angie Rosser: You got it. You do know your stuff.

Kate Tucker: Well, you know, all of my family is from there and we spent summers going down to my mom's side of the family, mostly so in Elkins and Colton. So along the Tygert. It's just so beautiful. My heart is there. And something about the land, just, it feels so old and so, well, I don't have to tell you…

Angie Rosser: Yeah, they've written songs about it.

Kate Tucker: Absolutely. I want to talk about that. So okay, first off, just in getting prepared for this, I have been listening to a ton of music, because I'm a musician and songwriter, and I was thinking, oh, the river song, you know, there's so many river songs, and I actually went through and listened to a bunch, and I was surprised at how similar they sound and I'm sure a musicologist could take us through the whole tradition of why that is, and where that began, but also just in the thinking of like, the rhythm of a river and how every river is a little bit different and the whole, “you can't step in the same river twice”… I'm curious for you, what are your river songs? 

Angie Rosser: Oh, wow. Well, I think you're right. The river is such a metaphor for making meaning of life and our connection to life forces. So, I'm a Grateful Dead fan and there's this song called “Broke Down Palace” and there's a lyric in there, it says, “listen to the river, sing sweet songs to rock my soul.”

I connect with that so much because I'm looking at my river now, my river, my backyard river, the Elk River. And what I noticed about this river is it's changing constantly. There's slight color changes depending on the wind. It gives a different energy on the surface and creates different light reflections to it.

Right now leaves are falling on it, so it's carrying some leaves downstream. So it's ever-changing, yet there's this ever constant element to it too. There's just like this rhythm that keeps flowing and keeps reassuring me that things move forward and we're part of this movement of water and constant life.

That is such an important reminder and connection for me on a daily basis. 

Kate Tucker: Yes, I have lived near water almost my whole life and now I have to walk a ways just to get to the Cuyahoga, but I don't know, I feel like it suffuses your life if you can be near a river. Do you remember the first time you were in water or experienced the awe of a body of water?

Angie Rosser: Oh, I do. It's hard to not remember that feeling, seems like ever since I've had memories I've just been drawn to water and the feeling of it. My mother tells stories of me swimming at 18 months old. I just kind of got thrown into water and could swim. You know, I don't really remember learning how to swim.

It just seemed to come natural, and you know, I was one of those kids where if I saw water, I wanted to be in it. There's something about engaging all the senses that draws me to the outdoors and especially water. I have this feeling I remember as a kid and to this day, it's my favorite feeling when I feel most connected is floating on top of a river or a lake and that feeling of you don't really know where your body ends and the water begins.

It just feels like you're kind of being absorbed and it's the most relaxing, serene feeling that I've ever had and that started a long time ago for me. It feels to me like being held. Yes, held and weightless and warm from the inside out. Maybe that's how we felt in the womb, Kate. I mean, there's probably something to that, right?

We were born of water and that feeling of comfort and safety and held by something that's so much bigger than we can even comprehend. 

Kate Tucker: And we are made up of water. So it's an elemental exchange. Yeah. 

So you are the West Virginia Rivers Waterkeeper. Is that correct? 

Angie Rosser: Well, yeah, I'm the West Virginia Headwaters Waterkeeper, which is part of an international alliance of WaterKeepers. And I also serve as the executive director of the West Virginia Rivers Coalition, which is a statewide nonprofit that's been working on conserving and restoring our rivers and streams in West Virginia for over 30 years.

So I play multiple roles, but they synthesize into basically being a voice for our rivers and all of the critters and people that rely on clean water and healthy rivers.

Kate Tucker: Mmm. I just love the title of Waterkeeper. And I wonder, I mean, what does that mean? How did they come to call you and all of these people across the world waterkeepers?

Angie Rosser: The idea of keeper is what it sounds like. To me, it's like we're keeping something, we're protecting something, we're being stewards of something precious and a shared resource that is important to all life and all people. So it's about people. And that's what I constantly come back to when I think about the gravity of the work I do and am privileged to do, is it just makes those connections between stewarding and nature and knowing that that is really about people and a healthy future for us.

And part of my paradigm is you just can't separate the two. We're connected. The way we take care of nature and creation and the life around us is really a reflection of how we take care of ourselves and each other as fellow human beings. 

Kate Tucker: It's so true. Yeah. When you were young, was there someone or some sort of influence that led you in the direction of stewardship or gave you the understanding that you have now with you today?

Angie Rosser: Yeah, certainly. A lot of my family relationships and memories connect to being around water and understanding our connection to life and wildlife. I grew up with a mother who I distinctly remember would grab daddy longlegs by the leg in the house and gently carry them outside because we weren't going to kill a spider or even an ant, and I still do that to this day. I will try to take these outside. 

And then both of my sets of grandparents lived near water. My papa was a biology teacher and, you know, he was very much around. observing nature and nature as a teacher. And he was also a gardener. So he helped me learn about the connection between nature and food and sustenance and commitment to that type of stewardship as well. So we did a lot of boating. A lot of our family vacations were organized around water and fishing. And those are some of the best childhood memories of my life. 

Kate Tucker: Oh, me too. I think I was on water skis by the time I was three and my grandpa had me up there because we would go boating on the Ohio River. And those were summers, you know, every summer out there on the river. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up?

Angie Rosser: I'm from Ohio too. I'm an Ohio River girl. Grew up outside of Cincinnati. And you know, it's interesting you talk about water skiing on the Ohio River because the Ohio River wasn't really a river that many people associated with being safe to swim around or recreate in.

Kate Tucker: No, it wasn't safe. I don't know what we were doing, but you know what, it was like the 80s. 

Angie Rosser: I know! Well, I had friends who did and they would go near one of the power plants that had the big cooling towers and would release hot water because the water was warmer, so they'd be going down. I know, I know. But the Ohio River has...

It's really played a role in why I'm doing the work I'm doing today because I do remember you don't swim in the Ohio River. You don't touch the Ohio River. It's dirty. And now I'm involved in work with really trying to transform that stereotype or that image and do the work it takes to make that river whole and restored again to where people can envision and can use it as recreational.

We're really working on a restoration plan for the Ohio River Basin that is aspirational and bold and visionary that this can be the river it once was into the future. We can make this happen. We can redefine it. We can reimagine it. Yeah. It's been exciting to sort of come full circle from a girl who couldn't swim in the river to now an older woman who's like, that's my mission! I want to leave this life and leave this work, leaving behind a vision starting to take hold of a different kind of Ohio River for generations to come.

Kate Tucker: I grew up near the Cuyahoga, and obviously that's a very storied river. And however complicated the Clean Water Act has been, it's a huge thing that people made happen by looking at something like that and saying, it's literally on fire. It's on fire! And so, the Ohio River, it's this mythical idea to me in many ways. Historically, like thinking about the Underground Railroad and Northwest Passage and all of the significance that that river holds. 

My grandfather, he always said he wanted to take his boat down the Ohio from Pittsburgh out to the Gulf of Mexico. And that seems so impossible to me as a kid. I was like, how on earth do you do that? You know, but the first time I saw that spot where the Ohio meets the Mississippi, oh my gosh, I get chills thinking about it. 

West Virginia has such amazing waterways, but just tell me a little bit about how you see maybe the Ohio and other waterways down there.

Angie Rosser: Yeah, well, I moved to West Virginia right after college, and I moved here largely because of the rivers and the mountains, and I was just struck by the natural beauty and the feeling of it.

There's something very, very special and unique about West Virginia. We are known as the Mountain State, and we're also known as the Birthplace of Rivers, because we're a state that has the Eastern Continental Divide coming through it. So we're high up in the east, and then on the east side of that divide, all of our rivers flow toward the Potomac and Chesapeake Bay, so we're feeding the drinking water of millions of people in the D.C. metro area with our mountain headwaters. On the west side of that divide, as we were talking about, goes to the Ohio River. Again, 5 million people rely on drinking water from the Ohio. And it just, again, makes me feel like we're in this privileged position that requires a lot of responsibility for the people who live here and care for these waters because so many people downstream depend on them.

So, that's a really profound thing I've held in doing this work and living here. And when I... commune with my headwater stream as I was doing last week, I just sort of say a prayer or a commitment to all the people who receive this water downstream that we're doing our best up here to keep it as pristine and clean and pure as possible.

And being a headwater state, I think we have 39, 40 rivers that begin in our state, 56,000 miles of streams. I mean, you hear the problems they're having in western states with water scarcity. That's not our issue. So all the more reason that we should be leaning into conservation and protection of this freshwater resource that is becoming more and more rare in this country and on this planet. 

So it's a really special place in that way. And again, you have these iconic rivers like the Ohio or the New River that flows into West Virginia from Virginia that is known as the oldest river in the east or in North America. And it's magnificent and just was recognized as our nation's newest national park, the New River Gorge National Park and Preserve.

So it's a wonderful thing when something like that happens, when there's more national attention on the unique qualities and values of our rivers and streams that bring people here to appreciate them. And then that sense of we're all connected. Water connects us truly. 

Kate Tucker: Yeah. You said something about communing with your headwaters. Would you take me there with you, paint the picture of where that place is and what it looks like, feels like when you go up there? 

Angie Rosser: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I have these places or rivers, and there's a lot of them around the state. And I don't get as much time to do this as I'd like, but it's like I need to check on them.

They're up in the mountains, and a lot of them are in our national forest, the Monongahela National Forest. So they're on public lands. They're pretty remote, but they're accessible. And that's the other reason I was just so wowed by West Virginia, is you have all this public land that is free. If you can find a way to get up there, it's right there for you.

A million acres of this national forest that was created, by the way, because of the value of these headwater streams. And it's like I go up there just to say hello and there's something I get from it, which is like a reassurance that, you know, I'm not here every day, but I know this is here for me and for us.

These places that I've been visiting and checking on haven't changed much, and part of our mission is to make sure these places are preserved forever. There's something also symbolic that I offer back to the rivers and back to this landscape of, I'm here for you, too. So there's some kind of exchange that happens, Kate, that's very...sacred and important to me and soul fulfilling. So I try to make time for it at least once a season to get up to these special places that I just feel that urge to keep a check on, see what's going on up there. And, it's all good. That's what I can tell you. It's all good up there. 

Kate Tucker: I don't know if I've ever been to the beginning of a river. What does it look like? 

Angie Rosser: Right. Yeah. When I say, you know, we're going to the birthplace of rivers, like, is there this glorious place where the river just appears? And it's not quite that. But what happens in these mountains is that you literally get water coming out of the side of the mountains, so it rains and then there are these springs, they're literally holes in the side of rocks that are starting to seep or pour out of the side of mountains that eventually form these rivulets or channels and they keep emerging, coming together. So it's sort of like fingers leading into a hand, leading into an arm, leading into a body of water and it just keeps accumulating into something that we more traditionally think of as a creek or a stream. Often it's very rocky to begin with. So that's when you get the beautiful sounds and the interaction of water and stone and the music that makes.

And then it continues to join other streams to create bigger rivers and just find its way. You get a real sense of what gravity means, and that's what's amazing. It's water and gravity working together to make this flow and energy happen. 

Kate Tucker: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the threats that those rivers are facing and then the communities surrounding them are facing. Tell me what's been happening and kind of what's on your mind when it comes to protecting these rivers. 

Angie Rosser: Yeah. Well, sometimes the threats are clear and oftentimes they're very complicated. So, as probably most people are familiar, West Virginia historically has been a coal mining state. Coal mining creates a lot of land disturbance, especially when you're talking about surface mining.

So, they're literally taking tops of mountains and putting them in stream beds. And that is very disruptive and it's sort of a sad situation because some of that mining happened a very long time ago when we didn't have any laws or regulations in place and so we have what we call a lot of abandoned mine lands and acid mine drainage.

It's hard for life to exist in the rivers and it also turns them orange because of the acid mine drainage causing iron to appear so you can visibly see some of the effects of legacy mining. That's one area that has had impact on many of our headwater streams. It's going to be a difficult solution to find what to do to restore them because it would be very expensive.

We're of the mind that it is possible if we have the will to do it, but we're also a very big natural gas producer. And in recent years, with the discovery of deep shale plays like the Marcellus Shale, we're seeing more of what they call unconventional drilling using hydraulic fracturing or fracking and that uses a lot of water and that water gets mixed with chemicals in ways that that water becomes unusable.

So it's one of those things where they call it consumptive use, where we're taking water out of the hydrologic cycle. We're putting chemicals in it in a way that can't be used again. So it gets injected underground or stored in a way just to try to keep it away from contaminating our water supplies. 

It's been a complicated thing and the complexity of all this, of course, is that these extractive industries have been such a core part of our economy and our way of life and the way that West Virginia families put food on the table. So it takes a special understanding of these dynamics to be able to do this work in a sensitive way that understands the cultural and economic dynamic at play.

The other thing, Kate, I would say that adds to the complexity is the reality is that West Virginia has quite high poverty rates. And what I just described about our economic reliance on certain energy sectors or extractive economies. I mean, you have to take into account that there are not many other options available to make a living.

And then the poverty also plays into infrastructure needs. Right. I think it's important for people to understand that there are many communities in West Virginia that do not have access to basic sanitation or potable water. And this is 2023 and there are places that have brown water coming out of the taps or have been on boil water advisories for nearly 20 years in a row.

I'm beginning to see progress, which is so encouraging. And part of the hope part, Kate, is that I think there's growing recognition of the inequality and the injustices that places like Central Appalachia have faced through the decades. And it's time to make that right. And with the poverty issues that we face and things like opioid addiction, I mean, we have the highest opioid death rate in the whole country. So it's like poverty, addiction, mental health, education access, broadband access, basic water infrastructure, I think these things are finally coming to a surface in the way that, our federal government is paying more attention and seeing more funding come in for things like sewer projects for places that don't have sewer septic. So the problem of what we call straight pipes where raw sewage is piping right into our creeks or streams, that issue is starting to get addressed, but we've got a long way to go still. 

Kate Tucker: What do people in those counties who've been living under boil water alerts, what is it like for them? What do they do?

Angie Rosser:  Well, they have found ways to cope in my county. If you have a truck and you have a big, what they call, water buffalo, it's basically a big plastic tank. You can drive that to the water company and fill it up. Not too far away from me, I have a neighbor who doesn't have water service like I do, but has relied on a well that got spoiled so he is now collecting rainwater and trying to treat that rainwater to a place that it is usable.

So there have been creative ways. There's a place in McDowell County that actually makes water from the air. It uses air and sun and takes that moisture in the air to make clean water because that's the best source of water because the rivers and creeks have been contaminated for so long. So there are ways that people are certainly dealing, but it is not easy.

Kate Tucker: Yeah, it's elemental. I mean, how are you meant to go about dealing with your opioid crisis and all of the things that are happening with the industries pulling out and all that when you don't have any water? 

Angie Rosser: Exactly. 

Kate Tucker: So it also strikes me as, as you were saying earlier, you know, with all of the headwaters and all of the robust watershed going both east and west along that divide, that West Virginia could be, and probably will be, a place of serious innovation when it comes to solving some of the global water issues we're facing. Because even just what your neighbor's doing with the rainwater, that's innovation. 

Angie Rosser: Yeah. 

Kate Tucker: So you've had some serious historical events that the nation's been aware of, but also I think maybe not so much in certain cases. Talk to me a bit about what happened in 2014 and just what it is also to be living in what's been called Chemical Valley.

Angie Rosser: Well, Chemical Valley is around the Kanawha River, which flows through our state capital of Charleston, and the Elk River, the river I live on, meets the Kanawha in Charleston. It's known as Chemical Valley because there's a high concentration of chemical manufacturing plants, 13 or 14 that are considered high hazard by EPA.

And again, it's been major employers for people who live in that Charleston metro area. But in 2014, right there on the Elk River, as it meets the Kanawha, a chemical storage tank was discovered to have a hole in it, but too late because around 10,000 gallons or more of a coal-cleaning chemical called MCHM leaked into the Elk River and it was just a mile and a half up from our largest drinking water plant.

So the toxic chemical entered the drinking water plant and ended up going out through the whole system to 300,000 West Virginians and for our small state, that's a lot. That's about one in five West Virginians who were left without water for days and weeks. And there was little known about the toxicity of this chemical.

A survey showed that about one in three people who were affected by the chemical leak and the contamination showed some kind of physical symptoms. So people were getting sick and going to the hospital for treatment and some being admitted to the hospital. So it was a very serious and scary time. 

And... it was a transformative time in many ways for me personally, for our organization, and I think for West Virginia, and maybe for the nation, because you're right, it did make national news, I think, because of the scale of the contamination and how vulnerable we realized that our drinking water is to one leaky chemical tank, and so it was a moment, too, Kate, where all 300,000 people, whether how much money you had in your pocket or the color of your skin or where you lived within those nine counties, you were all affected. Like, there was nobody not affected by this.

When it got personal, and I would say that it doesn't get more personal when we think about our work around water than drinking water, it was like an awakening for people to even connect that, oh, the water I drink is coming from that river. And, oh, there are tanks and chemicals stored along that river that are leaking.

You know, I should care about this. You know, I should think about where my water comes from and what's being done to protect it. So it revealed a lot of gaps and protections that our state legislature did decide to address in a pretty proactive way, but a lot of that work to do that protection wasn't funded, and much of those regulations that were put on tanks were chipped away over the years.

So it leaves people with some remaining questions about the safety of drinking water supplies and the water we drink. We're coming up on a 10 year anniversary of what we called the West Virginia water crisis and still to this day, I know there are people in that nine county area and the whole state who you know, remember that and are still skeptical about the safety of drinking water and what they should do.

And the answer, Kate, I want to be clear is not bottled water because that even is less regulated than our drinking water and has its own host of serious environmental implications and health implications too. So we got to get this right. The cost of that could look insurmountable at times, but the cost of not doing it, right?

We can't live without water. Cost aside, and understanding this from a national perspective or a national security perspective, as we think about impacts of climate change and how that's going to cause migration of populations, Central Appalachia is a place of some kind of sanctuary.

We will have increased precipitation, increased flooding. Flooding is a very serious threat and cost to our communities and something we're going to have to really reckon with more and more. But this place is going to be important on so many levels looking forward, so that makes our work all that more important.

Kate Tucker: Yeah, have you yourself experienced extreme flooding there? 

Angie Rosser: I have. I bought my house in 2007 here on the Elk River. It was not in the floodplain. It's downstream from a flood control dam. And since the dam was built, you know, all the locals say, “Oh, you know, we'll never get flooded.” Well, in 2016, an epic rain event or series of rain events led this river, which I can barely see now, it's way down there, and it came into my house and most everyone along this Elk River community up and down the river, really decimated not just homes, but businesses and infrastructure. We still don't have a grocery store back and this is seven or eight years later.

Our high school finally opened a month ago. So it took seven years to even get a school rebuilt. They had been going to school on these portable trailers on concrete blocks, stilts for that long. If you can imagine your high school experience being like that… But, you know, you really also see a community come together.

And that's one of the things I deeply love about West Virginia and living here. I mean, when it came down to it, when that all happened and people were without, had toxic mud in their house, were getting sick from it, didn't have water, didn't have electricity, didn't have broadband, didn't have cell service, I mean, it's down to you and your neighbors. And I saw beautiful things happen, just neighbor to neighbor. And yeah, that gives me hope. I mean, that was a hopeful time, and I hang on to that, and those bonds with my neighbors continue. It's just like, we got each other. 

Kate Tucker: I wish it didn't take that, but I think that when we are reduced to that sort of survival, we remember what really matters, and we remember that we're all just trying to have a place where we belong, a place we call home, a place of safety.

Angie Rosser: Yes.

Kate Tucker: You are working with the Rivers Coalition and it touches on both public health and then also on this global crisis around climate change. So give me a little bit of a picture of how long you've been there, what a day in the life is like, and what you're learning as you've gone through these crises that shapes how you approach your work today.

Angie Rosser: Well, today I serve as the executive director of the West Virginia Rivers Coalition. We have a team of ten people now working. We've grown quite a bit since I came on board about eleven, twelve years ago. But, you know, the day-to-day, it is about talking with people. And I especially enjoy talking to people who have a whole different perspective than I do or a different opinion.

And I enjoy deep listening because when I think we can get into that place of deep listening, we discover that we really do share a common value around protecting water and safe water and clean and healthy streams and stewardship and conservation. When we get down to the hope and the desire for West Virginians to want to see their kids and grandkids have a future here, have a viable future with families sustaining jobs and a healthy environment, it's like we are there together. And I just want to hold that space because it's so easy to get pulled back into this divisive society and political polarization that is just sort of all around us. 

But, you know, the day-to-day is responding to different communities. wanting to know more about proposed facilities coming to their community or things they're concerned about, whether it be brown water, unsafe water, toxins.

There's a lot more awareness around different toxic chemicals that are showing up in water. We still have a lot of West Virginians relying on private wells. There's not a lot of resources to help folks in rural areas on private well issues. I mean, that's our premise we operate on is that clean water is a basic human right that should be available to all, you know. 

Basically, our organization is there to provide science-based solutions to some of these hard problems. We can have a vibrant economy and a wonderful quality of life where clean water is a centerpiece of that. We can do that. And I'm feeling like people are coming together around that, which is very hopeful. 

Kate Tucker: Is there maybe an instance you recall where you had a conversation that you were able to kind of come together in a way that maybe at the beginning of the conversation you didn't anticipate. 

Angie Rosser: You know, there was some criticism about an incinerator coming to a community and that community saying, “No, we don't want this.” And there was a person I was talking to from, who didn't live in that community and he said, “You know, nobody wants anything! They just don't want it in their backyard.”

And we kind of led into this conversation about, “Well, can you understand how they feel? What if that was coming next door to you? Or next door to your kids' school? Like, can you understand that maybe they're not as knowledgeable as you are about the technology and controls? They're just hearing that dioxins are going to be released into their community. Can you understand why that's concerning?” "

“Well, yes, I can.”

That's a large part of our work is trying to build the bridge with the science and education to people's real lived experience and understanding people's real lived experience and people's concerns are what they're dealing with and to have compassion for that is just so essential. 

Kate Tucker: I feel like that compassion is like you said, limited to our perspective, and we only have our own perspective, and it takes work to move beyond that. So, I know you can't speak for all West Virginians, but you know, what are some of the maybe misperceptions or stereotypes and myths that you have to debunk regularly? Can you talk us through some of that? 

Angie Rosser: Well, the stereotypes that sort of grate on me the most are “backwards, poor, uneducated, and hillbilly – Appalachian.” I mean, the people I know here are the best people in the world!

Kate Tucker: I know! 

Angie Rosser: I know you know! I know you know. And, you know, when I have a flat tire, it doesn't take long for somebody just to say, “Can I help you out?” There is just a sense of community and connection and a simple way of living. And I always want to remind people, like come to West Virginia and you'll meet the most friendly people in the world!

And there's a lot of pride with coal mining, for example. I mean, if you can imagine risking your life every day, going underground in a coal mine, knowing the risk you're taking, so many end up with the black lung and other health problems. And we're seeing that happen even younger and younger with coal miners. 

But the pride is that they're making those sacrifices to provide the rest of the nation with electricity for the last century. There's something about West Virginians feeling pride in that and feeling a defensiveness when it comes to energy transitions to deal with climate change, which we know we need to do. Or even some kind of implicit blame put on a place like West Virginia for its reliance on fossil fuels. I mean, the reality is, it's served this country well. It's sort of a conflict, a tension of being proud and self-reliant, but also recognizing the sacrifices we've made and that the state deserves some help and making sure that we have an economic future that's going to be sustainable. So it's an interesting time to be living and working here because you can feel and see firsthand the impacts of energy transition happening in real time. 

I mean, coal mining isn't what it used to be. It just feels like we're in ground zero of those implications. It's not easy just to turn off the switch when it comes to coal mining or natural gas, because you don't want to risk leaving people behind and exacerbating problems of poverty and addiction and mental health.

You know, I guess the bottom line that I've realized is there's such a holistic approach that needs to be understood and taken when we talk about West Virginia's role in sort of this national global response to climate change, it’s so important. 

Kate Tucker: Yeah. Where do you see West Virginia, you know, when you think of a thriving West Virginia?

Angie Rosser: Hmm.

You know, when I think of a thriving West Virginia, I do feel a preservation of certain elements of our heritage and cultural identity, which means commitment to community and family, and sense of place and connection to the woods and waters. We're starting to see a lot more outdoor recreation and people from other places and states coming to experience West Virginia and seeing how special it is.

You know, tourism isn't the end all be all though. I mean, the hard reality we're grappling with there is the service industry are not often high paying sustainable jobs. So it's hard to replace a hundred thousand-a-year coal mining job with a seasonal worker making just above minimum wage. I mean, there's a big disparity there we have to figure out, but I think we're so well positioned geographically resource-wise to sort of have this paradigm shift around what it means to develop natural resources. 

I think soon we're going to see natural resources not be thought of first of mind as something to extract and take away, but something to preserve and hold up, as something we are the keepers of. Right? And you can come experience this and it will make meaning for your life, your family, your connection to nature, and the bigger world around us. So I'm excited about that and why I'm not leaving. I'm staying here. 

Kate Tucker: In a sense, it's like West Virginia, it's powered the nation and it could steward the nation.

It could show us what we do with the natural resources that remain and how, like you were saying, they can suffuse our very experience here as humans on the planet. I just…I love it there, and I love the work you're doing. It gives me so much hope. I would love to know, you know, what's giving you hope these days?

Angie Rosser: Well, a lot of what we've talked about throughout this conversation. You know, this river I look at every day, what I was describing, it's always flowing, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. Sometimes you can hardly even tell it's moving, but you know it is. And there's something metaphorical about that for me that even when change seems slow, like that water, that gravity will find a way to get this river down to the Gulf of Mexico and touch people all along the way.

So there's something very symbolic to me about just the meditation of the river and hope and knowing that things will keep moving and that I am a very small part of this movement, this work, this consciousness-raising that is happening. And it feels great to be a part of it. And there's something about that connection of we're in this together. It's like we are connected as life forces feeding this hope. 

Kate Tucker: I love that. Ooh, I didn't ask you. I want to know, do you have a favorite river? 

Angie Rosser: That's like, I don't have kids, but when people ask me, it's like, okay, you want me to pick my favorite child?! You know, the easy answer is the one I feel like I have the closest relationship to, which is the Elk River, because I do get to see it when I'm home every day.

So it is a relationship that I have with this river. I feel like I can feel it when it gets high and muddy and swollen, and I can feel it when it gets a little low. And right now it is a gorgeous emerald green that is just giving to these fall colors that are beginning to emerge. So the Elk River is special, I mean, not only because it's in my backyard, but it's our longest river that starts and ends in West Virginia. It starts in one of those headwater mountain springs I was talking about and flows all the way to our capital city. So it's a storied river that, if it could talk, could tell you a lot of things about central West Virginia. 

Kate Tucker: It has been a complete pleasure to talk with you today and I hope I get to get down to the Elk River or one of those headwaters with you someday and just, yeah, commune, commune with the water. 

Angie Rosser: Yes, Kate, we will have to go swimming sometime. I will introduce you to my favorite swimming holes and waterfalls. We'll chase some waterfalls too. How about that?!

Closing Credits: Thank you so much to Angie Rosser for sharing her mission to protect our most vital, elemental, and restorative life force in the rivers and streams of wild and wonderful West Virginia.

Hope Is My Middle Name is hosted and executive produced by me, Kate Tucker. You can find me on YouTube and on Instagram @katetuckermusic and if there's someone you think belongs on the show, send me a message. 

This episode was produced by Christine Fennessy with editing from Rachel Swaby. Our production coordinator is Percia Verlin. Our sound designer and engineer is Mark Bush. Music by the fantastic artists at Epidemic Sound, Soundstripe, and me. Big thanks to Conor Gaughan, our publisher and fearless leader at Consensus Digital Media. Hope Is My Middle Name can be found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen.

It would mean a lot to us if you would follow and maybe even leave a comment or a review. We love hearing from you! Hope Is My Middle Name is a podcast by Consensus Digital Media, produced in association with Reasonable Volume. This is the last episode of season three. Thank you so, so much for listening, and we'll see you next time!